tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post7464413094525103685..comments2024-03-15T07:27:24.345-04:00Comments on Kitchen and Residential Design: Autumnal re-runs: Dirty money, filthy lucre; a designer's confessionPaul Anaterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05777487147630173644noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-89499910018596480172010-10-19T00:44:36.927-04:002010-10-19T00:44:36.927-04:00I think that most of us operate this way, the ones...I think that most of us operate this way, the ones who don't operate like us get away with it because no one ever calls them on it. I do. So far as I'm concerned, somebody taking or paying kickbacks makes me look bad and I don't like being made to look bad.Paul Anaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05777487147630173644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-75173033486454459602010-10-19T00:38:28.786-04:002010-10-19T00:38:28.786-04:00So happy to hear that there are other professional...So happy to hear that there are other professionals who feel this way about paying for or being paid for referrals! Hearing about this practice has always bothered us - where is their integrity?Lindahttp://todsendesign.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-24777366808220647072010-10-18T13:18:01.680-04:002010-10-18T13:18:01.680-04:00Thanks for weighing in, let's hope the days of...Thanks for weighing in, let's hope the days of cost plus accounting are on their way out.Paul Anaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05777487147630173644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-46790787059792930912010-10-18T11:54:52.872-04:002010-10-18T11:54:52.872-04:00I am glad you wrote about this from a vendor persp...I am glad you wrote about this from a vendor perspective. When I first started in the design business over a decade ago, they way we made money was on a referral basis; 10%-40% depending on the vendor. The customer was charged a small fee up front but the bulk of the income was straight referrals. It was so convoluted and messy and I really felt uncomfortable doing this. What was even harder was trying to explain to a client how we made money. I found myself in many flustered situations because client would inevitable try to bargain that %. Finally four years ago I went to a billing system that was flat fee. It may sound like lot upfront for a client but that was all they paid. No dodging conversations behind them and they could also use vendors that they felt comfortable with as opposed to me feeling slighted when they didn't use one of my vendors. It was a relief! I think more interior designers are now going this route. Hopefully "cost plus" will be a thing of the past.Ray-Leehttp://www.rayleeminteriors.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-34773114723638142032010-10-18T09:56:30.522-04:002010-10-18T09:56:30.522-04:00No to play pile on, but I hear it from Interior De...No to play pile on, but I hear it from Interior Designers primarily too. IDs and general contractors from time to time.Paul Anaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05777487147630173644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-65320220126732969132010-10-18T07:25:23.171-04:002010-10-18T07:25:23.171-04:00As a general contractor, I run into this all the t...As a general contractor, I run into this all the time from interior designers. Never from architects or other contractors. I have made many, many referrals of architects, designers, and tradesmen through the years and have never asked for a "piece of the action" but iti seems that the vast majority of the interior designers expect this for every referral they make. I have always thought this was sleazy.Markhttp://www.landmarkservices.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-514414232005784102010-10-17T23:01:26.783-04:002010-10-17T23:01:26.783-04:00Cindy: I don't have a problem with referral fe...Cindy: I don't have a problem with referral fees when they're earned and disclosed fully. It's the sneaky stuff that I can't stand.<br /><br />Susan: I like your subtlety, but the woman in situation two was beyond any kind of subtlety. I am a referral machine and I view it as part of my job to get the best people I can find lined up for my clients. All I ever ask is that my clients be treated superbly. I can usually root out the kickback nonsense from the people I refer to, but when something comes across my desk from an unknown person and it's such a bald cash grab I feel compelled to call a spade a spade.<br /><br />Melody: Thanks!<br /><br />Scone: But the barriers aren't low in the design world. It's expensive to get started and there's a lot of money at stake. People who engage in this stuff are putting up with an enormous risk and I don't think they're quite aware just how big.Paul Anaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05777487147630173644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-60526609187767595932010-10-17T17:44:50.906-04:002010-10-17T17:44:50.906-04:00Thanks for speaking up about this. I've seen t...Thanks for speaking up about this. I've seen this kind of crud all over the building and home furnishing industry. And let's not even get started on real estate. However, as long as the barriers to entry in these jobs are low, and it's easy to avoid getting caught, this stuff will continue.sconenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-16918134538739052782010-10-17T15:59:15.058-04:002010-10-17T15:59:15.058-04:00I laugh every time I see that photo of Schlomi. Gr...I laugh every time I see that photo of Schlomi. Great post.Melodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05124636214096825169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-68124467592701332782010-10-17T15:21:15.104-04:002010-10-17T15:21:15.104-04:00I have a slightly different response. When asked t...I have a slightly different response. When asked to put in money for an allied professional, I simply say "I don't do that because it's too messy" and let them figure out in what way I am referring, not wanting to take the time to explain/validate my reasoning, etc. It works really well, especially when said casually. And, man, do I refer big jobs to a variety of professionals. Whatever.Susan Serrahttp://www.thekitchendesigner.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-41240866432521471732010-10-17T13:34:12.967-04:002010-10-17T13:34:12.967-04:00or you could say: the client can opt to pay you th...or you could say: the client can opt to pay you the $1000; it's their money. Its hiding the fee that seems sleazy to me. by finding you, she actually was doing work. and maybe the value is negotiable - is a phone call worth $1000? <br /><br />otoh, I refer people all the time. cannot imagine what cajones it takes to then ask for a fee for doing so little... Plus good deeds tend to cycle back, good karma. but that's my way of doing business, apparently it's not hers.cindyfwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10116811708217985106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-31504254258928956642010-10-17T08:58:32.467-04:002010-10-17T08:58:32.467-04:00Thanks Chookie. Having ethics and then putting the...Thanks Chookie. Having ethics and then putting them into practice by acting morally never wins popularity contests but I don't know how people sleep otherwise.Paul Anaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05777487147630173644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-91956997681783035852010-10-17T07:26:49.098-04:002010-10-17T07:26:49.098-04:00Well done.Well done.Chookiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07230973711859964063noreply@blogger.com