tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post5279303122836863129..comments2024-03-27T03:11:58.288-04:00Comments on Kitchen and Residential Design: Martha Stewart commits another offensePaul Anaterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05777487147630173644noreply@blogger.comBlogger63125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-77891190775757577902013-01-23T01:25:39.116-05:002013-01-23T01:25:39.116-05:00Cowards leave anonymous comments on blogs by the w...Cowards leave anonymous comments on blogs by the way. My name is out there for the world to see and I'd suggest that in the future you own your opinions.<br /><br />Now, to your comments, it's not at all a case of simple economics. The big boxes get tax incentives to locate where their stores are. And their tax advantage is how they bring lower prices to you. Part timers are encouraged to go on Medicare and Medicaid and at the end of the day, all of us end up footing the bill for those stores. Big boxes cost our society a fortune in externalized costs.<br /><br />Your local lumberyard, or plumbing showroom or cabinet person can't compete on price when the deck is so stacked against him or her. The lower prices you pay as a consumer come at a serious cost to your community.<br /><br />When someone goes to work at an independent retailer, he or she gets a job that starts at around $13 an hour and he or she goes to work for someone who's your neighbor. This employee gets a benefits package and a career path.<br /><br />If that same person gets a job at the big orange box, he or she will start at around $9 and will be let go after ten years because that employee is determined to be too expensive. Not only that, he or she isn't rewarded for product knowledge, just product sales volume. <br /><br />Employees who can learn how to manage themselves in a corporate environment may climb upward but most of them end up as greeters at Wal-Mart (another, heavily subsidized business) if they can find jobs at all.<br /><br />I used to be a trainer at one of the big boxes and the way we considered our employees was beyond immoral. Not only that, we couldn't compete with the independents when it came to price. But people flocked to us because they assumed they were saving money. <br /><br />In fact they weren't saving anything but what they were doing was propping up a heavily subsidized business.<br /><br />Saving a buck in those places actually harms your community and at some point all of us need to ask if the dollar we save is worth the harm we cause in that saving.<br /><br />I say that as someone who loves nothing more than to save the occasional buck, but I'll never do it at someone else's or my community's expense.<br /><br />Paul Anaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05777487147630173644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-72738646539816525882013-01-22T02:24:58.240-05:002013-01-22T02:24:58.240-05:00So the basic arguments are: Big Orange kills local...So the basic arguments are: Big Orange kills local business, sells crap Masterbrand cabinets, therefore, buy from local or smaller manufacturers, that sell better quality. All consumers are dumb and tricked by the big evil orange into thinking Martha actually hand makes each one, and all consumers have crap taste that buy at big box stores.<br /><br />First off, it is true that big stores kill local business. But so what, get over it. We live in a global economy, and an ever changing world. The basic laws of economics is all about supply and demand. If the general populace is driven towards big box stores, then that's where consumers are putting their money. <br />Sure it is sad that the local craftsman are getting muscled out, but that's economics. The same arguments were made during the industrial revolution and people were complaining they were losing their jobs. The local stores will have to adjust and re-tool to either niche or fit in the new economy. Basic economics.<br /><br /><br />Secondly, the argument that local stores give better quality is also not true. A lot of local trades do the exact same type of work, but at a higher price point. Lots of them are also fly by year stores that have no warranty, that you have no idea will be around 10 years from now. If you pick the wrong one, you could still end up with 'crap' so to speak. At least with big box companies, you'll know they'll honor their warranty. Local stores and non name brand cabinets can be equally 'junk' if you are not careful.<br /><br />The whole debate over Martha Steward / MasterBrand being junk is not right as well. Negative posters would have you believe that you are throwing your money out the window, when you could be spending less or a little more for better quality elsewhere.<br /><br />That couldn't be further from the truth. They are fine cabinets, and are an excellent value. I find that the posters here are just biased because they have a set mindset that is against big box stores. <br /><br />At the end of the day, if you go take a look at the cabinets, you like the style, it feels solid enough, and the price is right -- don't have a negative bias just because its from a big box store and has a 'celebrity name', so to speak, attached to it.<br /><br />For every one that claims to have had a 'horrible experience', you will also find those who have dealt with smaller stores or so called custom stores with equal amounts of pain. There's always going to be hickups, the trick is to roll with the punches and give you money to a business that you have a reasonable amount of faith in. And like it or not, big orange is one of those companies. <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-84487961296833434492012-09-25T23:53:14.250-04:002012-09-25T23:53:14.250-04:00Martha Stewart cbinets by MasterBrand are terrbile...Martha Stewart cbinets by MasterBrand are terrbile. MasterBrand actually shipped us cabinets with their own Quality Control rejection slips inside. Their cutomer service is worse than a joke. Theyve shipped the order many times and their motor freight carried keep breaking the cabinets AND losing parts of theorder. We are going to have Home Depto take back the entire lot. It's been 4 months of pure hell. Don't waste your time dealing with this highly inferior company.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-89857199248713501912011-11-30T08:07:37.422-05:002011-11-30T08:07:37.422-05:00It sounds like you're in the right spot. Betwe...It sounds like you're in the right spot. Between those four brands, that dealer can accommodate what ever budget you're working with.Paul Anaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05777487147630173644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-55268778310487542932011-11-30T02:25:25.080-05:002011-11-30T02:25:25.080-05:00Paul, Ive found a good local dealer who sell Omega...Paul, Ive found a good local dealer who sell Omega, Dynasty, Showplace, and Homecrest. Would you receommend any of these brands?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-7085808775329835442011-11-15T07:43:03.770-05:002011-11-15T07:43:03.770-05:00Thanks Matt! This post has taken on a life of its ...Thanks Matt! This post has taken on a life of its own I swear. I hope that it keeps people from making expensive mistakes.Paul Anaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05777487147630173644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-56409567931665743322011-11-15T00:36:32.313-05:002011-11-15T00:36:32.313-05:00I agree with everything Paul has said. Home Depot ...I agree with everything Paul has said. Home Depot and Martha Stewart? I was really excited about this combo...and the fact that the door styles from "her" line actually didn't totally disgust me, as my style leans more toward the modern/chic/mid-century realm(something not exactly supported by any big box home center). But alas after reading, and checking out the prices....PHEW! <br /><br />I understand paying good money for fabulous, quality cabinets, but Paul is indeed right. They are overpriced crap compared to what you can get for your dollar somewhere else. Ikea even has great quality for the dollar compared to the lowest end kitchen on the Martha/masterbrand line. And at least you have more options(can we say blum hinges...standard?)<br /><br />But cabinetry? You'd be better off shopping elsewhere if you want more bang for your buck!<br /><br />MattAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-14648054364581567682011-09-04T06:57:26.203-04:002011-09-04T06:57:26.203-04:00Hi Paul - we are just about to go with Martha Stew...Hi Paul - we are just about to go with Martha Stewart cabinets when I came across this post while looking for reviews. We did go to some independent places but the prices were substantially higher for what appears (??) to be similar products. We also had a hard time getting quotes back from some of the independent dealers - it's almost as if we aren't worth the work for them as they would rather deal with high net worth individuals. I checked out the Medallion line but they don't appear to be in Nova Scotia, Canada. Anyone else you can recommend? Thanks for your help.Jodynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-31916152294739494012011-08-18T16:47:03.870-04:002011-08-18T16:47:03.870-04:00You have a ton of options. Can you shoot me an e-m...You have a ton of options. Can you shoot me an e-mail? Just click the e-mail me button in the sidebar. I can help you better if I know where in the country you are.Paul Anaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05777487147630173644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-35893316606399925252011-08-17T18:39:39.078-04:002011-08-17T18:39:39.078-04:00I'm the previous middle class person with 10,0...I'm the previous middle class person with 10,000 to spend. I checked out Silverline Medallion online and didn't like the designs. Is there another option? What I did like about the Martha line was the Dunmere design in Sharkey Grey color. Is there something that would look similar to that design but not be a rip off? <br /><br />I didn't mention before that the independent businesses, who I'd rather support, deal with highter end clients. I live in an oil and gas town where people throw money around like confetti at a wedding. I can't afford going independent in this town. I have the beer budget but would like a kitchen that looks like I have champagne taste. I also want to be as eco friendly as possible but have checked into bamboo and it's out of my price range. Any suggestions?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-91493013705094846332011-08-17T17:38:30.821-04:002011-08-17T17:38:30.821-04:00That's exactly what I'm saying.That's exactly what I'm saying.Paul Anaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05777487147630173644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-73190364696602904282011-08-17T01:08:03.926-04:002011-08-17T01:08:03.926-04:00Interesting comments. Basically what I think you ...Interesting comments. Basically what I think you are saying Paul is that Martha cabinets are like brand named clothing. They are made in the same factory as the lower end clothing but have a brand-end name and price tag attached to them. You are saying as a middle class purchasers, I'm getting ripped off. <br /><br />So, what is a middle class person to do when they have around $10,000 to spend on cabinets (I wouldn't be opposed to spending less - I'm not an idiot) and can't buy IKEA cabinets because they don't fit? Are you saying that I get more for my money if I buy Silverline by Medallion? <br /><br />BTW - you are correct about the IKEA cabinets. I remodelled a property using them and they were easy to install and performed well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-46056730520362626672011-07-26T21:32:11.911-04:002011-07-26T21:32:11.911-04:00Amen anonymous! Big box stores are local economy k...Amen anonymous! Big box stores are local economy killers. They promise low prices but how expensive are those low prices when you add up all the damage?Paul Anaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05777487147630173644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-56024902830720679852011-07-19T23:36:31.921-04:002011-07-19T23:36:31.921-04:00Just like to make a small point about something po...Just like to make a small point about something posted by Anonymous (the Home Depot kitchen designer).<br />Anonymous said, "As to where the money goes, you may have a shop of 5-7 people in an independent dealer that may spend part of thier money in the community. Typically the orange store hires over 120 people from the community to work at each of those stores, that live near the store. So who is returning more money to the community?"<br />This is an unfair comparison. 120 Home Depot employees vs. 5-7 people working in an independent cabinet store? A more fair comparison would be to add up the employees of the cabinet shop, the local hardware store, the lighting store, the plumbing supply store, the garden center, the appliance store, the tile store...<br />Or you can just count up the number of those in your department.<br />You are skewing the stats to support your argument which lacks merit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-67993157925124715002011-06-16T20:27:38.125-04:002011-06-16T20:27:38.125-04:00Wow. All these anonymous comments supporting Home ...Wow. All these anonymous comments supporting Home Depot. Maybe it's just me but I smell a rat.Paul Anaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05777487147630173644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-26329283855743646982011-06-16T16:25:41.716-04:002011-06-16T16:25:41.716-04:00Whew! Lots of very opinionated people here who ob...Whew! Lots of very opinionated people here who obviously have issues with Martha. I'm in the process of ordering some of "her" cabinets at Home Depot and, from what I can see, the prices are relatively good AND the cabinets are exactly what I want. Will they last forever? Doubtful, but I won't either. With reasonable care, I expect these cabinets to last until someone else buys my house years from now and wants something different. Given my budget and design esthetic, I'm happy with my choice and wish people who have a bone to pick with Home Depot or with Martha would either relax or offer to pay the substantial difference in price so I can have "better" cabinets!<br /><br />And I will say, I owned some Mill's Pride cabinets and, when the thermafoil started separating on the door edges, I contacted the company and they replaced every single door FOR FREE! I think the PureStyle finish on Martha's cabinets is an improvement in technology and I feel confident if there is a problem in the future, Home Depot will take care of it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-73844441199465343412011-06-04T19:32:42.970-04:002011-06-04T19:32:42.970-04:00I swear this post has the longest legs of any I...I swear this post has the longest legs of any I've ever written. Deborah: I'm not disparaging Masterbrand cabinetry. I'm disparaging Home Depot's constant attempts to pretend Masterbrand products are anything what they are. I don't care how many people Home Depot employs, the economics of shopping at a big box undo all of that. Big box stores suck money out of local economies and put people like you out of work. Please keep doing what you're doing and selling what you're selling. There's a real need for your services and I hope people can find you and will continue to patronize you business. Your expertise alone ought to be enough to make people drive past the big orange box but unfortunately it's not. I'll keep doing my part to promote independent businesses so long as I have breath in my body.Paul Anaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05777487147630173644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-26230743577256906012011-06-04T15:51:01.964-04:002011-06-04T15:51:01.964-04:00Wow... Not even sure how I stumbled on this thread...Wow... Not even sure how I stumbled on this thread but this has been very interesting reading. <br /><br />I work at an independent kitchen store and we carry 4 lines of Masterbrand cabinets -- Aristokraft, Diamond, Decora and Kitchencraft. I'm quite sure you'll accuse me of "drinking the Masterbrand Kool-Aid," but I believe we offer a great product at a good price. I don't say "great" price because I have lost several kitchens to the "big box" stores due to price (as someone else said - they have tremendous buying power). I do work on commission, but as someone who watches her own money, I am never one to try to push someone into a line / design they can't afford. I do feel that I offer a service that not everyone would get at a "big box" store -- more attention to the design, working to coordinate all selections (cabinets, countertops, floors, backsplash, lighting...) I say that, but then again, I've never shopped for cabinets anywhere, so maybe Home Depot / Lowe's employees do help customers do all of that (based on anecdotal evidence I would say they don't, though).<br /><br />I'm not sure what my point is in posting - other than I agree with previous posters that there is a market for Martha's / Diamond / Thomasville, etc. cabinets, and there is really no need to disparage them. While I admire you're wanting people to support local stores (like the one I work in!), I think someone else's analysis of the number of people Home Depot employs, etc, kind of killed your argument, but clearly you would never admit that.Deborah Hnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-47143896448442961922011-05-30T01:12:44.570-04:002011-05-30T01:12:44.570-04:00This from someone so cowardly he or she leaves a c...This from someone so cowardly he or she leaves a comment as "anonymous." I don't make factual errors.Paul Anaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05777487147630173644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-86871750876035795222011-05-27T15:12:51.403-04:002011-05-27T15:12:51.403-04:00Paul - Your posting on January 9th and several oth...Paul - Your posting on January 9th and several others had more errors than I could count. I think you need to get your facts straight if you're trying to influence consumers. How much actual experience do you personally have with the Martha Stewart cabinets and various cabinet manufacturers?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-64051272036769819112011-05-24T23:13:42.821-04:002011-05-24T23:13:42.821-04:00You've done a great job of drinking the Kool-A...You've done a great job of drinking the Kool-Aid. Home Depot pays you less money than you'd make at an independent dealer and you somehow turn that into a good thing.Paul Anaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05777487147630173644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-62773612797184898492011-05-24T20:56:41.815-04:002011-05-24T20:56:41.815-04:00Ok, a couple of points here. First in honesty I do...Ok, a couple of points here. First in honesty I do work for the orange box as a designer and am definitely not a Martha fan. For the few that have asked exactly what Purestyle is, it is NOT a thermofoil. It is true laminated material. Which means it is thin layers of material (usually paper based) fused together with a protective coating for a finish. Think formica countertops and you're real close. Thermofoil is a vinyl material fused to an underlying material, typically MDF plywood, using heat and vacuum. If it is exposed to heat again it can separate from the substrate. Purestyle doesn't react to heat llike thermofoil does and has the durability and ease of cleaning of thermofoil. Secondly Paul, I have to comment on your recommendation of buying from indepentdent dealers. What I can sell at my store with the buying power of 2500 stores behind me, lets me sell a better product at a lower price than you will ever find at a independent dealer. Your profit assumptions are way off also. I work in a top 15 market in an affluent area and have sold exactly 3 kitchens over $20,000 in the 7 years I've worked here. Most times the profit margin on these products is under 30%. As to where the money goes, you may have a shop of 5-7 people in an independent dealer that may spend part of thier money in the community. Typically the orange store hires over 120 people from the community to work at each of those stores, that live near the store. So who is returning more money to the community? Also, I don't work on commission, as compared to the independent, so my sole interest is in getting the most for my customer. Regardless of what they buy, my paycheck is the same. Unlike the majority of independents, who work on a strict commission basis. So whose best interest is he really looking out for? Lastly I took a look at silverline cabinetry and the first thing that jumps out at me is the fact that they are made by Elkay, which if I'm not mistaken,is another large corporation that makes a myriad of different products including kitchen sinks, faucets and other products. In looking at the cabinet line, it has an entry level price point which would be equal to the big boxes. By the time you get to a cabinet with equal features ( cushion-close drawers and doors and solid hardwood drawer boxes with dovetail joints) to the standard semi-custom cabinet offered at the big box, the price at the independent is significantly higher. My company and my job is far from perfect, but I do like the fact that I can come to work each day and honestly say I work for my customers to glive them the best kitchen I can, at the price they can afford.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-88217297607731539122011-05-14T22:47:32.185-04:002011-05-14T22:47:32.185-04:00Silverline's my big one but talk to any indepe...Silverline's my big one but talk to any independent showroom. All showroom feature good, better, best lines so see what's available in your area. There's a whole universe outside of the home centers, believe me!Paul Anaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05777487147630173644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-55954893114622312632011-05-14T13:21:24.908-04:002011-05-14T13:21:24.908-04:00We are at the planning stage of a kitchen rennovat...We are at the planning stage of a kitchen rennovation. <br /><br />Thank goodness i stumbled across this blog!!<br /><br />Aside from the Silverline brand, what other cabinets DO you recommend for entry-level to mid range budget??Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2143843667296816868.post-52274234583106340192011-05-05T07:28:25.882-04:002011-05-05T07:28:25.882-04:00Does anyone know what PureStyle is? I was told it...Does anyone know what PureStyle is? I was told it is "European". I'm not opposed to engineered products--love my vinyl windows--but don't want white cupboards that will yellow, get ugly in ten years, etc. Is it "tried and true"?<br />Thanks,Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com